Comments on: the green, green grass of your world http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/ the unruly darlings of public sociology Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:59:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: cuteandsmart http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-412 cuteandsmart Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:30:26 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-412 You are right, BlueMonster. Put another way, compassion is an underrated virtue. OW's post wasn't the opening ceremony of the oppression olympics, it was her story. Which lots of us share some or parts of. Other people have theirs and I would hope that we would hear and respond to those with compassion too. You are right, BlueMonster. Put another way, compassion is an underrated virtue. OW’s post wasn’t the opening ceremony of the oppression olympics, it was her story. Which lots of us share some or parts of. Other people have theirs and I would hope that we would hear and respond to those with compassion too.

]]> By: blue monster http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-404 blue monster Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:40:12 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-404 Sorry all, fixed the "gooper" link, which goes to a comment on Crooked timber directed at my "always be nice" post. Now in context, perhaps it makes a little more sense. Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing OW's post or responding to it--only to the streams of commentary that have come from it. Sorry all, fixed the “gooper” link, which goes to a comment on Crooked timber directed at my “always be nice” post. Now in context, perhaps it makes a little more sense.

Just to be clear, I’m not criticizing OW’s post or responding to it–only to the streams of commentary that have come from it.

]]> By: jaylivingston http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-403 jaylivingston Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:52:56 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-403 Right. It's about understanding the constraints on other people's choices. For me, the most striking thing about Olderwoman's post had nothing to do with complaining or gender or most of the other things that commenters at Crooked Timber were interested in. Instead, what impressed me was her statement about what a theory of behavior should include. <i>"We often act and theorize as if only one person at a time is real, and everyone else is just environment, not also choice-making consequence-bearing people. We think that if our choices are consequential that we must be able to control the outcomes of our choices. That is, we make the fundamental attribution error in social psychology, attributing outcomes to individual choices rather than systems. But even 'system' is an attribution error, as we tend to treat it as if it were a single other individual not, itself, a product of uncountable choices by other people."</i> I find it very difficult think that way, and I can't imagine how to construct a model for that approach. It's easier to think in terms of cultural or structural pressures, or individual attitudes and motives. That's why I'm impressed by what little I know of Schelling's work. He explains social patterns as the outcome of individual choices made in response to other people's choices, sometimes with a result that nobody wanted, intended, or predicted. Right. It’s about understanding the constraints on other people’s choices. For me, the most striking thing about Olderwoman’s post had nothing to do with complaining or gender or most of the other things that commenters at Crooked Timber were interested in. Instead, what impressed me was her statement about what a theory of behavior should include.

“We often act and theorize as if only one person at a time is real, and everyone else is just environment, not also choice-making consequence-bearing people. We think that if our choices are consequential that we must be able to control the outcomes of our choices. That is, we make the fundamental attribution error in social psychology, attributing outcomes to individual choices rather than systems. But even ’system’ is an attribution error, as we tend to treat it as if it were a single other individual not, itself, a product of uncountable choices by other people.”

I find it very difficult think that way, and I can’t imagine how to construct a model for that approach. It’s easier to think in terms of cultural or structural pressures, or individual attitudes and motives. That’s why I’m impressed by what little I know of Schelling’s work. He explains social patterns as the outcome of individual choices made in response to other people’s choices, sometimes with a result that nobody wanted, intended, or predicted.

]]> By: wickedanomie http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-402 wickedanomie Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:42:23 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-402 I have so many thoughts about this whole conversation, but right now all I can formulate is: Surely you're not using <i>gooper</i> as it is defined by Urban Dictionary (aka slang for vagina)? Other than that oddity, great response! If I were to put my thoughts into words, they would be a less eloquent version of what you said. I have so many thoughts about this whole conversation, but right now all I can formulate is:

Surely you’re not using gooper as it is defined by Urban Dictionary (aka slang for vagina)?

Other than that oddity, great response! If I were to put my thoughts into words, they would be a less eloquent version of what you said.

]]> By: shrinkingisaac.com » Blog Archive » Gold and Silver (Stavesacre) http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-401 shrinkingisaac.com » Blog Archive » Gold and Silver (Stavesacre) Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:59:23 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-401 [...] There’s been an interesting thread on scatterplot following a post about choices/constraints/gender/expectations/consequences/etc. i haven’t really known what to say about it since it was posted other than i was glad to read it. Well, there have been numerous follow-ups there and elsewhere. So far, i have pretty much only read the ones at scatterplot, mainly because i am in the middle of trying to crank out some last minute simulations for a presentation next week. Well, Dan Myers just picked up on the thread, chastising us all for unhelpful “the grass is always greener” thinking. [...] [...] There’s been an interesting thread on scatterplot following a post about choices/constraints/gender/expectations/consequences/etc. i haven’t really known what to say about it since it was posted other than i was glad to read it. Well, there have been numerous follow-ups there and elsewhere. So far, i have pretty much only read the ones at scatterplot, mainly because i am in the middle of trying to crank out some last minute simulations for a presentation next week. Well, Dan Myers just picked up on the thread, chastising us all for unhelpful “the grass is always greener” thinking. [...]

]]> By: yli http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-398 yli Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:23:12 +0000 http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/the-green-green-grass-of-your-world/#comment-398 well said, blue monster! we sociologists talk so much about diversity in terms of race/ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc., but rarely examine the need for diversity awareness in the parenting and familyhood domain (and coupling, etc., for that matter), where the norms are as strong and taken for granted as almost any cultural norms. i hope people will appreciate your post as much as the powerful posts that preceded this. (btw, the "gooper" link is broken.) well said, blue monster! we sociologists talk so much about diversity in terms of race/ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc., but rarely examine the need for diversity awareness in the parenting and familyhood domain (and coupling, etc., for that matter), where the norms are as strong and taken for granted as almost any cultural norms. i hope people will appreciate your post as much as the powerful posts that preceded this.

(btw, the “gooper” link is broken.)

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