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	<title>Comments on: academic etiquette now that there&#8217;s that wiki</title>
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	<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/</link>
	<description>the unruly darlings of public sociology</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jaylivingston</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>jaylivingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I always have sent letters -- as specific and informative as possible -- to candidates we interviewed but did not select.  But there's no way I could do that faster than the Wiki.  I'm also not sure if the Wiki distinguishes between an offer made and an offer accepted.  If you're a candidate and you read on the Wiki that the school made an offer, you might feel offended that they didn't send you a personal rejection letter.  But they may be waiting till the offer is accepted, keeping you in the active pool in case their #1 choice turns them down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always have sent letters &#8212; as specific and informative as possible &#8212; to candidates we interviewed but did not select.  But there&#8217;s no way I could do that faster than the Wiki.  I&#8217;m also not sure if the Wiki distinguishes between an offer made and an offer accepted.  If you&#8217;re a candidate and you read on the Wiki that the school made an offer, you might feel offended that they didn&#8217;t send you a personal rejection letter.  But they may be waiting till the offer is accepted, keeping you in the active pool in case their #1 choice turns them down.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-253</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-253</guid>
		<description>"Mom": Presumably it *is* candidates and friends of candidates who post info on the wiki.  The issue is more that this information is in fact out there, and so departments shouldn't get the idea that other candidates aren't going to find out that they've made an offer.

Incidentally, my strong suspicion is that the wiki much more accurately tracks whether places have interviewed than whether places have made offers.  Also, I should say that I am generally enthusiastic about collapsing information asymmetries, and so I personally believe the wiki is a great thing and am all for people spilling what they know to make it as accurate as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mom&#8221;: Presumably it *is* candidates and friends of candidates who post info on the wiki.  The issue is more that this information is in fact out there, and so departments shouldn&#8217;t get the idea that other candidates aren&#8217;t going to find out that they&#8217;ve made an offer.</p>
<p>Incidentally, my strong suspicion is that the wiki much more accurately tracks whether places have interviewed than whether places have made offers.  Also, I should say that I am generally enthusiastic about collapsing information asymmetries, and so I personally believe the wiki is a great thing and am all for people spilling what they know to make it as accurate as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: mom</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh my gaaawwwddd. I had no idea. Nor does my department, which is on the wiki as having scheduled interviews.  

so, A) I hang my head in institutional cluelessness. and B) isn't it possible that other people (candidates, friends) are posting this info on the wiki?  I know for a fact none of my colleagues put this info out there.


BTW -- in terms of rejection stories.  I once removed my name from consideration after an interview, and then later received a rejection letter. No fair. I broke up with them first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my gaaawwwddd. I had no idea. Nor does my department, which is on the wiki as having scheduled interviews.  </p>
<p>so, A) I hang my head in institutional cluelessness. and B) isn&#8217;t it possible that other people (candidates, friends) are posting this info on the wiki?  I know for a fact none of my colleagues put this info out there.</p>
<p>BTW &#8212; in terms of rejection stories.  I once removed my name from consideration after an interview, and then later received a rejection letter. No fair. I broke up with them first.</p>
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		<title>By: jeremy</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have no problem with people who didn't get interviews finding out from the Wiki.  The investment and reason-to-hope involved in sending in an application is just not of the same magnitude as being invited to interview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no problem with people who didn&#8217;t get interviews finding out from the Wiki.  The investment and reason-to-hope involved in sending in an application is just not of the same magnitude as being invited to interview.</p>
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		<title>By: olderwoman</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>olderwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just to be clear, if we actually interviewed you, I'd expect us to give you personalized and humane feedback about where you stand, and sign on wholeheartedly to criticism about dead silence after an interview.  My earlier comments were directed to the "sorry but no thanks" folks who don't even get asked for their papers.  Do you want a form email promptly sent out as soon as we are ready to interview telling you that you did not even make the first cut?  And how do we word it if we might come back to you if Sara Superstar does not work out? 

If you make offers that get turned down, it can be six months before the position is really filled and the search is really over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be clear, if we actually interviewed you, I&#8217;d expect us to give you personalized and humane feedback about where you stand, and sign on wholeheartedly to criticism about dead silence after an interview.  My earlier comments were directed to the &#8220;sorry but no thanks&#8221; folks who don&#8217;t even get asked for their papers.  Do you want a form email promptly sent out as soon as we are ready to interview telling you that you did not even make the first cut?  And how do we word it if we might come back to you if Sara Superstar does not work out? </p>
<p>If you make offers that get turned down, it can be six months before the position is really filled and the search is really over.</p>
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		<title>By: clball</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-245</link>
		<dc:creator>clball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-245</guid>
		<description>I think it is too much to ask a dept to tell the other candidates where they rank after an offer has been made. No one can trust the wiki for sure. What is unfortunate is the number of schools that never even contact the other interviewees after a candidate has accepted, at least in poli sci. One friend was told by the search chair, "If we make you an offer you should hear from us within two weeks. Otherwise, well, you want hear from us at all." 


Colorado College, by contrast, sent a letter to all applicants after the job was filled, thanking them for applying and telling them whom they had accepted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is too much to ask a dept to tell the other candidates where they rank after an offer has been made. No one can trust the wiki for sure. What is unfortunate is the number of schools that never even contact the other interviewees after a candidate has accepted, at least in poli sci. One friend was told by the search chair, &#8220;If we make you an offer you should hear from us within two weeks. Otherwise, well, you want hear from us at all.&#8221; </p>
<p>Colorado College, by contrast, sent a letter to all applicants after the job was filled, thanking them for applying and telling them whom they had accepted.</p>
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		<title>By: cjcolyer</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>cjcolyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-237</guid>
		<description>I think the best practice is to be as transparent as possible when making hiring decisions.  When I was on the market a few years ago, I interviewed at regional-state University and upper-tier private college (among a few other places).  I was candidate #2 at both schools.  The chair at regional-state promptly emailed me after the faculty made their selection to tell me my status, "the faculty, after much deliberation, has decided to make an offer to another candidate.  I want you to know that we think you will make a strong colleague and we may contact you in a few weeks should the other candidate decline our offer.  From the private college, I heard nothing... until I learned from a friend that someone else had been hired.  Should I go back on the market, I will happily apply for a job at regional-state (if they're hiring, that is).  I will not go near upper-tier private.

Some departments are paranoid about doing what the chair at regional-state did for me.  They worry that candidates will pack up their toys and go home if they find out that they're the second-choice person.  I think that's silly, but what do I know.

To those of you on the market, know that your behavior influences this to some extent.  We've had candidates ask for 2 or 3 weeks to "decide" on our offer... when in fact, they were using our offer to leverage a more lucrative offer elsewhere.  While that may be "the way the game is played" it jams up other candidates on the shortlist that we could be interviewing or offering jobs.  If you have little or no intention of actually going someplace, either don't apply or decline the invitation to interview.  (I'm not saying, don't apply broadly... or don't be smart in your negotiating strategy.  I'm saying that what you do effects others on the market).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the best practice is to be as transparent as possible when making hiring decisions.  When I was on the market a few years ago, I interviewed at regional-state University and upper-tier private college (among a few other places).  I was candidate #2 at both schools.  The chair at regional-state promptly emailed me after the faculty made their selection to tell me my status, &#8220;the faculty, after much deliberation, has decided to make an offer to another candidate.  I want you to know that we think you will make a strong colleague and we may contact you in a few weeks should the other candidate decline our offer.  From the private college, I heard nothing&#8230; until I learned from a friend that someone else had been hired.  Should I go back on the market, I will happily apply for a job at regional-state (if they&#8217;re hiring, that is).  I will not go near upper-tier private.</p>
<p>Some departments are paranoid about doing what the chair at regional-state did for me.  They worry that candidates will pack up their toys and go home if they find out that they&#8217;re the second-choice person.  I think that&#8217;s silly, but what do I know.</p>
<p>To those of you on the market, know that your behavior influences this to some extent.  We&#8217;ve had candidates ask for 2 or 3 weeks to &#8220;decide&#8221; on our offer&#8230; when in fact, they were using our offer to leverage a more lucrative offer elsewhere.  While that may be &#8220;the way the game is played&#8221; it jams up other candidates on the shortlist that we could be interviewing or offering jobs.  If you have little or no intention of actually going someplace, either don&#8217;t apply or decline the invitation to interview.  (I&#8217;m not saying, don&#8217;t apply broadly&#8230; or don&#8217;t be smart in your negotiating strategy.  I&#8217;m saying that what you do effects others on the market).</p>
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		<title>By: shrinkingisaac</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>shrinkingisaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-236</guid>
		<description>As one who was on the market last year (and thankfully happily landed somewhere i &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; wanted to be), and one who followed the wiki/blogs fairly consistently last year - i can only comment on this from my experience. 

At one of the places i interviewed, the department head phoned to tell me that they were extending an offer to someone else. i appreciated the information, however, that offer clearly fell through because a couple of months later they contacted me again to ask if i was still interested in the position. i had already accepted elsewhere by that point, so it was moot. However, that email exchange was a really strange one to have. So in the area of offers, i don't know what i think is the "best" approach.

On the other hand - there was another one that i interviewed for that i never heard back from &lt;i&gt;at all&lt;/i&gt;. Even after they settled on someone else. To that, i definitely cry foul. I spend days with them on the interview, and i can't even get an email or a phone call to let me know they are through with their search? In the case of a completed search, i don't think contacting those interviewed is too much to ask. And to be honest, even in the places i didn't get an interview, i appreciated even the form letters letting me know the search was completed. The sting of rejection was definitely outweighed by resolving &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; of the uncertainty in the process.

Finally, as for general updates on info - i agree with socfreak. It was nice to know where i stood in terms of "long-short lists", etc. from the departments as their process progressed. The blogs/wiki started in part to alleviate some of these disparities in information between departments and candidates. While they can provide some sense on these things, candidates can only place so much stake in anonymized, potentially 4th hand information. Hearing straight from the horses mouth was much more anxiety alleviating (regardless of whether it was good or bad news). My $0.02.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one who was on the market last year (and thankfully happily landed somewhere i <i>really</i> wanted to be), and one who followed the wiki/blogs fairly consistently last year - i can only comment on this from my experience. </p>
<p>At one of the places i interviewed, the department head phoned to tell me that they were extending an offer to someone else. i appreciated the information, however, that offer clearly fell through because a couple of months later they contacted me again to ask if i was still interested in the position. i had already accepted elsewhere by that point, so it was moot. However, that email exchange was a really strange one to have. So in the area of offers, i don&#8217;t know what i think is the &#8220;best&#8221; approach.</p>
<p>On the other hand - there was another one that i interviewed for that i never heard back from <i>at all</i>. Even after they settled on someone else. To that, i definitely cry foul. I spend days with them on the interview, and i can&#8217;t even get an email or a phone call to let me know they are through with their search? In the case of a completed search, i don&#8217;t think contacting those interviewed is too much to ask. And to be honest, even in the places i didn&#8217;t get an interview, i appreciated even the form letters letting me know the search was completed. The sting of rejection was definitely outweighed by resolving <i>some</i> of the uncertainty in the process.</p>
<p>Finally, as for general updates on info - i agree with socfreak. It was nice to know where i stood in terms of &#8220;long-short lists&#8221;, etc. from the departments as their process progressed. The blogs/wiki started in part to alleviate some of these disparities in information between departments and candidates. While they can provide some sense on these things, candidates can only place so much stake in anonymized, potentially 4th hand information. Hearing straight from the horses mouth was much more anxiety alleviating (regardless of whether it was good or bad news). My $0.02.</p>
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		<title>By: socfreak</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>socfreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-235</guid>
		<description>I think that departments sending form e-mails telling candidates where they stand is much better than having no information at  all. Also, as some people have commented, it is good for the ego to know that you were shortlisted, even if you don't get an interviewed in the end. At least you know what your general position on the job market is, and whether you should persist on pursuing an academic career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that departments sending form e-mails telling candidates where they stand is much better than having no information at  all. Also, as some people have commented, it is good for the ego to know that you were shortlisted, even if you don&#8217;t get an interviewed in the end. At least you know what your general position on the job market is, and whether you should persist on pursuing an academic career.</p>
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		<title>By: olderwoman</title>
		<link>http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>olderwoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scatter.wordpress.com/2007/11/27/academic-etiquette-now-that-theres-that-wiki/#comment-232</guid>
		<description>OK, I see.  Obviously I agree about telling people who've interviewed where they stand.  I have not looked at the Wiki, but I've heard tales of erroneous information being posted on it.  So when Superstar Sara gets 7 offers, does she put an X in the "offer" box for all 7? And to everyone, if you want a rapid update about where you stand, how do you feel about getting what are obviously cursory form emails?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I see.  Obviously I agree about telling people who&#8217;ve interviewed where they stand.  I have not looked at the Wiki, but I&#8217;ve heard tales of erroneous information being posted on it.  So when Superstar Sara gets 7 offers, does she put an X in the &#8220;offer&#8221; box for all 7? And to everyone, if you want a rapid update about where you stand, how do you feel about getting what are obviously cursory form emails?</p>
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